tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3770861767173688889.post6469459351661738255..comments2023-04-26T00:55:44.495-07:00Comments on Fantastic Worlds: Worlds For Man - Part 0 - Introduction and The SunJordan179http://www.blogger.com/profile/04175992431854812417noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3770861767173688889.post-91735296081976797322011-03-30T15:26:18.388-07:002011-03-30T15:26:18.388-07:00(the Lunar comments being by way of example, of co...(the Lunar comments being by way of example, of course).Jordan179https://www.blogger.com/profile/04175992431854812417noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3770861767173688889.post-53783572646736788122011-03-30T15:25:50.360-07:002011-03-30T15:25:50.360-07:00Well yes -- one should always be clear in a futuro...Well yes -- one should always be clear in a futurological speculation as to the general timeframe under discussion. There is no way that we could return to the Moon in, say, a month (not enough time to assemble a launch vehicle from existing components) but we could do it (at some peril to the crew) in a year if we had a good enough reason, we could <i>easily</i> do it with reasonable safety in ten years, and I would be <i>very</i> surprised if there weren't significant Lunar settlements in a century.Jordan179https://www.blogger.com/profile/04175992431854812417noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3770861767173688889.post-18039538270714706742011-03-27T06:34:32.029-07:002011-03-27T06:34:32.029-07:00Yael Dragwyla commented:
Actually, Jordan, you...Yael Dragwyla commented:<br /><br />Actually, Jordan, you've done a great job of making the distinctions between "near-term," "middle-term," and "long-term" technology and its potential applications very clear. There's no harm in speculating about things far in the future. Also, John W. Campbell himself insisted only that stories published in *Astounding* had to accord with what we know *now* about the physical universe and possible ways of exploiting it; when it came to things which, so far, were unknown to science and couldn't yet be proven real or unreal, the sky was the limit. So, e.g., natural gravity had to work in a story like we know scientifically gravity unmodified by anything really does, whereas positing a gadget that could get gravity to do things it could never normally do by evading or transcending physical laws by means of as-yet-unknown principles was acceptable as long as it didn't get ridiculous. When it comes to futuristic speculation, the same is true: we can posit as-yet-unknown technologies and scientific principles as long as they don't fly in the face of what we already know to be true. (An example of the latter would be New Agers claiming that on 12/21/12, the Earth's poles of *rotation* will shift by some huge amount, say, around 45 degrees relative to the plane of the Solar System, and do so within 24 hours, which would require the Moon suddenly ceasing to exist -- the Moon has stabilized Earth's axis of rotation for over 4 billion years -- and, as well, the Earth's surface getting slagged down to the mantle due to the heat released by the sudden change in Earth's angular momentum.) So such speculation is very much in order, as long as it is clearly given which belong to which future domain. Which you have.Jordan179https://www.blogger.com/profile/04175992431854812417noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3770861767173688889.post-32312314694212933762011-03-26T22:02:16.446-07:002011-03-26T22:02:16.446-07:00They don't exist now. They may or may not be ...They don't exist <i>now</i>. They may or may not be possible. I will point out, though, that the approach of building a shell or robot out of exotic <i>matter</i> is only one of the possible avenues: scientists now think that it is <i>theoretically</i> possible to embed complex patterns in electromagnetically-charged plasmas, and (even better) we're just starting to learn how to create complex photonic patterns. So the construction machines or robot bodies might wind up being made out of something as close to "pure energy" as you will ever see outside of a pulp sf story. Neat, eh?Jordan179https://www.blogger.com/profile/04175992431854812417noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3770861767173688889.post-3644696604443519772011-03-26T19:16:02.184-07:002011-03-26T19:16:02.184-07:00It would also require materials that may not even ...It would also require materials that may not even exist.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3770861767173688889.post-20815652051619355302011-03-26T18:39:05.055-07:002011-03-26T18:39:05.055-07:00For Lilac and Datura's, and everyones, benefit...For Lilac and Datura's, and everyones, benefit: let me explicitly state the structure of my analysis. <br /><br />"Near Term" refers to things that we could do <i>now</i>, if we had the infrastructure in place -- they would require no fundamental scientific advances, merely the creation and deployment of technology. In this specific instance, this includes projects such as deploying solar power collection and transmission satellites within the orbit of Mercury.<br /><br /><i>Middle Term</i> projects would require some advances in science, in addition to advances in technology, to be possible. For instance, in this case, stationing solar power satellites within the chromosphere of the Sun, or directly manipulating the Sun's magnetic fields from a distance. We couldn't do this <i>now</i>, even with the proper infrastructure deployment, but it wouldn't take <i>too</i> much scientific advance to give us the capability.<br /><br />Finally, <i>Long-Term</i> projects require the limit of what I consider forseeable scientific and technological progress. I can see how it might theoretically possible to either shield material structures against the extreme thermal, mechanical and magnetic stresses prevalent within the Sun, or construct such machines of exotic materials which would be proof against them. I am perfectly aware that such would require <i>considerable</i> scientific advance, on the order of the difference between modern engineering and the engineering of Classical Roman antiquity.<br /><br />Clear now?Jordan179https://www.blogger.com/profile/04175992431854812417noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3770861767173688889.post-7048205767887317972011-03-26T18:28:08.033-07:002011-03-26T18:28:08.033-07:00Sorry, Yama -- do you actually have a point? I ma...Sorry, Yama -- do you actually have a <i>point?</i> I made it very clear that I was talking about highly-modified human descendants or exotic-matter machines doing this in the very far future, <i>not</i> Mark One standard humans doing this any time <i>soon</i>. I'm quite aware of, and in fact explicitly-referred to earlier in the article, the reasons why solid matter as we today understand and control it couldn't retain its organization inside a G-class star.Jordan179https://www.blogger.com/profile/04175992431854812417noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3770861767173688889.post-49000179316974516262011-03-26T14:53:52.124-07:002011-03-26T14:53:52.124-07:00Colonize the sun? COLONIZE THE SUN? Oh, this is to...Colonize the sun? COLONIZE THE SUN? Oh, this is too much.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com